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Changes in the GSF meta [LONG POST]

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I flew the T1 scout for a bunch of matches to try it out. I feel like it's really powerful against gunships and non-CP strikes/bombers, but weak against CP as well as good scouts. It's decent in domination, but I don't see myself putting it on the bar for that when the T2 scout is better at many more things. It is better than I thought in TDM though, although I'm not sure it's actually fully meta. It's definitely the best choice when you're being focused at least.

I think it's quite good against CP bombers, especially if you make the switch to RFL. I agree with what Lompi said (and you implied?) earlier about a ship not being meta if it's only useful in certain situations. And I think you guys are right that the T1 scout might fall into this category. I do really like this ship though, and I feel like I do well with it. It feels like my 2nd strongest ship in domination. But you're right, overall it's not as strong as the T2 scout.

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I don't think the T1 strike is necessarily better than the T2 for Dom, it's about what role you're filling. The T1 is definitely better than the T2 at killing stuff on the node, but it can't clear nodes. I think of it as flying a T1 gunship or T2 scout.

Agreed here, and a lot of it probably comes down to player style/preference. I tend to fight a lot on nodes, and I really dislike playstyles that force you to get off the node (even if it's momentarily). I think the T2 Strike is probably a bit better in team dom but the T1 Strike is a bit better in solo queue dom. I'd still prefer battlescout or EMP scout over both of them in either scenario though.

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I've tried clusters out, I don't like them on the T1 strike. My blasters out-range them, and it's bad for how I fly. Because I open with blasters only, and use missiles when they're running, clusters are limiting -- they only work at close ranges. The 7700m of concussions is a huge deal. If I could I'd take ion missiles on the T1 too. I don't think the snare is worthless at all, I've killed quite a few players like that. If they're low on engines, it also prevents a maneuver (good on barrel roll ships especially). Protons don't work for dogfighting at all, which is why I don't think they're really worthwhile on the T1 strike. You can't use protons at close range except on lazy targets (or someone engaged by another player), which makes them a lot less useful to me. The execute potential of concussions is a lot better than that of clusters because of the SP and higher damage, too. Land them on a strike with 18% hull and he's dead. I don't think raw DPS is a significant enough factor to rule them out.

Fair enough. I basically just use the clusters as a counter to scouts and to add a bit of extra DPS during my retro jousts. Sometimes they work for finishing off a fleeing gunship, but a concussion may work slightly better for that purpose.

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Re: T1 scout -- do you take shield disable? That's an issue I have with that ship. If you take shield disable, strikes without CP (and to a lesser degree scouts and gunships) are not really bothered, but if you take engine disable you need to deal with CP. It can't be good against both at the same time.

I take shield disable, but I only ever use the ship in domination. I use it primarily as a counter to bomber spam. Although that seems to be a fairly rare sight lately.

Frustrating that you suggest the meta for T3S being sensor beacon in tdm when everyone will still expect you to have tensor for dom. Is the sacrifice worth it for tdm? Not really. It's still my favorite ship and I'll fly it when I can, but people justify a ship by the damage it can put out while surviving and in that regard it's a weak ship. Forget the buffs/debuffs, that stuff doesn't show up on a scoreboard. It's a ship that was meant to be paired with teammates, and most think the loss of dps isn't worth the sacrifice.


Somewhat related to this discussion - has anyone tried TT/DF/Pdive/EMPm/Running Interference T3 Scout? It sounds like a solid ship that could fill a similar role to the T2 Strike in domination. It might be a bit better when under heavy pressure. The EMPm offers solid team utility while the TT/evasion provides solid DPS and survivability.
Posted Nov 13, 17 · Last edited Nov 13, 17
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Engine disable is far more useful than shield disable now, I would argue, due to the increased effectiveness of missiles and the nerf to distortion field.

However shield disable now has a wider range of targets basically, because quick charge is now the best shield ability.

Traesha said the T1 scout is what she tops leaderboards with, I'd say there's something to it being meta. It may not be as good as the T2 but that doesn't make it non-meta.
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Posted Nov 13, 17
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I think shield disable works better with LLC because it allows you to kill CP. Also, you can win jousts against unsuspecting battlescouts when you disable their TT and DF. Disabling retro thrusters works here too, but a lot of scouts still run power dive and barrel roll. Taking away quick charge shields from a strike is actually quite useful when you are chasing one circling a node. It's often the difference between a surprise burst kill and a long stalemate.


I agree engine disable is probably better if you're running RFL since you can kill CP with those already and because you're less likely to try scout vs scout jousts with RFL. However, you are really depending on your team to benefit from the engine debuffs, and sometimes your team is useless. It's hard for me to choose a debuff that I can't directly benefit from (pods are by far the strongest secondary imo) unless it's a premade game.
Posted Nov 13, 17 · Last edited Nov 13, 17
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wrote:
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Somewhat related to this discussion - has anyone tried TT/DF/Pdive/EMPm/Running Interference T3 Scout? It sounds like a solid ship that could fill a similar role to the T2 Strike in domination. It might be a bit better when under heavy pressure. The EMPm offers solid team utility while the TT/evasion provides solid DPS and survivability.

I've flown that setup before the update a bit. It's capable, but honestly I prefer the balance of running with support utilities. If you're just trying to bump up the dps in the T3S you might as well switch to another ship. lol
Posted Nov 13, 17
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Yeah, I flew the T1 scout with LLC and EMP engine disable. That was pretty good against anything without CP, but lost to CP of course.

I haven't tried a T3 scout with DF because it seems like a waste. A T3 strike can put up similar numbers without a cooldown, and can also heal. I will give it a shot in the name of science. It feels like if you're going support you might as well go full support, with sensor beacons and repairs.

I did check the numbers for effective HP of an evasion T3 scout vs. three T3 strike builds (evasion, directonals + evasion, directional + hull). Even assuming you're being shot at by stuff that doesn't respect DR at all (so no LC/quads/LLC, clusters/ion missiles or whatever), the only time the T3 scout is actually tankier is when DF is up. Admittedly it does get another half break from DF which could be useful, but the T3 strike can tank that missile in most cases and it has repairs. It simply doesn't seem worth it to bring a T3 scout without repairs at the very least.
Eudoxia What makes the T1 scout non-meta (or semi-meta) is that it's not the best at the job. Saying that it can still be meta is like saying the T2 gunship was meta previously. It could still slug stuff, right? If when the going gets tough you switch out of it to a different ship, it's not a meta ship in my opinion. I've yet to see someone do better in that ship than they could potentially do in another one (namely T1/2 strikes or T2 scout) in any game. I have flown it for about 20-25 matches to try it out just over the last week or so, not counting tests when the patch went live. I can do well in it, but not as well as in other ships. It may be me, but I think I'm experienced enough to know how to use the ship to a reasonable degree.
Posted Nov 13, 17 · OP
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Interesting about the tankiness comparison. The scout does have better turning, speed, and engine efficiency though.
Posted Nov 13, 17
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I usually run T3 scout when I tensor, and keep going until I die and switch. It's not great.
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Posted Nov 13, 17
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The T3 scout has better speed and efficiency, although turning is very close now because the extra speed worsened scouts' turning. The T3 strike is tankier and has more engines (144 vs 115), so the distance they cover over a full engine is almost the same (with a 5000m range advantage to scouts more or less). That's pretty much the only significant advantage scouts have over strikes.
Posted Nov 14, 17 · OP
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Scout speed was only increased while in F3 no?

Scout turning still seems way better than strike turning, especially in F4.
Posted Nov 14, 17 · Last edited Nov 14, 17
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They increased strike and scout speed passively too. A double-turning strike out-turns a scout in anything but F4 according to Neutrinos.
Posted Nov 14, 17 · OP
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